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Thread: Mir Was Briefly Talked About This Week At XDC2013

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    Again, I'm only saying they didn't paid attention to the desktop when making that decision. I know they are stuck with mesa on the desktop. I also believe they expected everyone to go along with their choices, so they didn't care how mesa currently handles it, they probably expected them to change to whatever they choose, or to at least provide an option to work the way they want.
    Do you really think they didn't pay attention to their primary market when making that decision? I mean, it's possible, sure, but...that doesn't sound like a great business decision let alone addressing my concern of technical issues (which I THINK we agree were non-existant).
    Also, how could they reasonably expect everyone to just go along with their choices? How often has that happened?
    TBH, I don't think we disagree in the main, but I seriously question the above ideas. That seems to reek of naiviety and bluster...

  2. #22
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    BY US FOR US!!!!! i dont know how many times i said it was only For UBUNTU AND UBUNTU ONLY now Piss off Ubuntu Zealots and on top of that he was so dumbfounded on how Mir and Wayland Worked it was not even Funny he did not even know how the CLA worked as well





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  3. #23
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    > BY US FOR US!!!!! i dont know how many times i said it was only For UBUNTU AND UBUNTU ONLY now Piss off Ubuntu Zealots

    You can't really blame them, they are victims of the dishonesty of Canonical, that has sent an entirely different message to the users, see for example this post by the "Ubuntu Community Manager": http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/07/10/mir-for-everyone/

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam View Post
    Do you really think they didn't pay attention to their primary market when making that decision? I mean, it's possible, sure, but...that doesn't sound like a great business decision let alone addressing my concern of technical issues (which I THINK we agree were non-existant).
    I agree with both points. But when asked about that (as much as Wayland is capable of allocating compositor/server side, Weston doesn't do it that way because Wayland and Weston authors think it's the wrong way (TM)) they said something like it leads to better performance on mobile. Considering how it was stated (I don't remember the reason, though) that it's worse for the desktop, I believe they chose to ignore the desktop there. Even when I consider it a stupid choice to do so.
    Also, how could they reasonably expect everyone to just go along with their choices? How often has that happened?
    I never said it was reasonable, I just said I think they did expect that.
    TBH, I don't think we disagree in the main, but I seriously question the above ideas. That seems to reek of naiviety and bluster...
    I don't think we disagree either. The fact I state what I think their motivations were doesn't mean I agree with such motivations, and I don't agree with them.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    as much as Wayland is capable of allocating compositor/server side, Weston doesn't do it that way because Wayland and Weston authors think it's the wrong way (TM)
    it's nothing to do with weston. how egl buffer allocation is handled is 100% up to the egl implementation. any wayland compositor using mesa for egl will do client-side allocation, because that's what mesa does. egl on rpi, running weston, uses server-side buffer allocation because that's what its egl implementation does. this required zero changes to weston.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    BY US FOR US!!!!! i dont know how many times i said it was only For UBUNTU AND UBUNTU ONLY
    No, they have said anyone is free to use it if it suits their needs (obviously the CLA is a drawback for some ) The whole talk was about what code can be shared between the two projects,if any, so work isn't further duplicated. By us for us if you want it you can use it der
    Piss off Ubuntu Zealots and on top of that he was so dumbfounded on how Mir and Wayland Worked it was not even Funny he did not even know how the CLA worked as well
    Yeah thats it knock a X.Org maintenance team developer over a CLA question,that although kind of relevant to the subject of code sharing, is also the most stupid question to ask since they are already well aware of how the CLA works and seems like an utter time wasting question.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDF420 View Post
    No, they have said anyone is free to use it if it suits their needs
    Words < actions.

    Canonical can say all they want that "anyone can use it" but they fail to understand something. They want to be the "leader" of Linux distros, they want to be in the front lines creating software which other people use. That's a fine goal in itself, but the way they go about it is ass-backwards. They fail to realize that in order to be a "leader" in open source, you can't just create software for your own needs and then tell others "use it if you like". In order to be a leader you need to create software that suits everyone's needs, something where everyone can collaborate and influence the project.

    The fundamental difference between Mir and Wayland is the development model: Canonical develops Mir with the primary objective of it powering their Unity desktop, and any other desktop using it would be a second-class citizen to it. By contrast, Wayland is developed for very diverse needs, it can be used by many different projects. Now if you consider the choice from the Desktop Environment developers' point of view, they have a choice of trying to support Mir - and always playing catch-up to Canonical's changes, because they won't provide a stable server-side protocol to follow, they just have an API between Mir/Unity that they can break whenever they want (and have even stated that they will do so). They could choose to fork Mir, but at that point it'd just be easier to use Wayland, which is being developed to work for everyone, and promises a stable protocol to develop against.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rambutan View Post
    > BY US FOR US!!!!! i dont know how many times i said it was only For UBUNTU AND UBUNTU ONLY now Piss off Ubuntu Zealots

    You can't really blame them, they are victims of the dishonesty of Canonical, that has sent an entirely different message to the users, see for example this post by the "Ubuntu Community Manager": http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/07/10/mir-for-everyone/
    i 100% blame Canonical and the Ubuntu Leader from Microsoft and all the forum trolls who said this was going to work on any thing but Ubuntu Unily Dumb shit like this is why Canonical is so far in the hole even Valve is dropping them

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    I agree with both points. But when asked about that (as much as Wayland is capable of allocating compositor/server side, Weston doesn't do it that way because Wayland and Weston authors think it's the wrong way (TM)) they said something like it leads to better performance on mobile. Considering how it was stated (I don't remember the reason, though) that it's worse for the desktop, I believe they chose to ignore the desktop there. Even when I consider it a stupid choice to do so.

    I never said it was reasonable, I just said I think they did expect that.

    I don't think we disagree either. The fact I state what I think their motivations were doesn't mean I agree with such motivations, and I don't agree with them.

    I clearly misunderstood your intent, and I think we're in agreement!
    As Daniel says below, wayland/weston doesn't determine where the allocation occurs but is left to the egl implementaion. That makes Canonical's statements about this issue even more damning (either incompetance or simply lying).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam View Post
    I clearly misunderstood your intent, and I think we're in agreement!
    As Daniel says below, wayland/weston doesn't determine where the allocation occurs but is left to the egl implementaion. That makes Canonical's statements about this issue even more damning (either incompetance or simply lying).
    how do you think Microsoft got so damn big Lies Lies and more Lies

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