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Thread: AMD's Mantle Graphics API For Linux?

  1. #31
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    Mantle isn't an OpenGL alternative.

    Mantle will be a set of frameworks to encapsulate specific parts of their Hardware via API calls, while in conjunction to interfacing with OpenGL and OpenCL. Are people truly that dense to think it's a replacement? It'll be an API that supports DirectX, OpenGL, OpenCL, not to mention other stuff by accessing the most common APIs without having to directly write strictly in each.

    Sorry, but AMD did a truly piss poor job discussing Mantle. I took it as a sound set of APIs to access assembly calls in C/C++ [most likely C++].

    AMD is fully committed to OpenGL and OpenCL moving forward. This Mantle opens up access to hardware level optimizations.
    Last edited by Marc Driftmeyer; 09-27-2013 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
    Mantle isn't an OpenGL alternative.

    Mantle will be a set of frameworks to encapsulate access to OpenGL and OpenCL. Are people truly that dense to think it's a replacement?
    So you're saying that Mantle is an API into OpenGL?

    You realize Mantle is a low-level console API, right?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris200x9 View Post
    Not saying it was clearly a shot against Valve's ambitions I'm just saying it's a bit ironic that a user of a system with ~2% market share is saying 15% market share is no big deal.



    No tell me about the work involved, I'm genuinely curious. I wouldn't think going from one api to the same api on another platform would be that difficult, wouldn't it just me like going from XNA to iOS game using monogame?
    Porting to XB1 to Mantle (easy)
    Now you have moved from XB1 which is a fixed stat platform to the PC which has different processors, RAM, graphics, drivers, etc. I would think because of the fixed platform, that API code wouldn't be very robust as using an API for PCs. Lots of latent bugs will be found just from the different clock speeds and shader counts. To put this in perspective, most large Java programs I have encountered don't run without issue on Linux when it was developed for Windows. In the same way on Android, you can test your code on 8 devices with different hardware and OS versions and everything runs perfectly, release it and have then have a 25% failure rate total. One of the reasons Rage isn't ported to Linux or other OpenGL games.
    Testing, you pretty much have double the scope of testing since you are supporting two APIs in Windows. Otherwise, you are a screwing your consumers and why id Software has traditionally said Linux is unsupported when they release binaries.

    Again it will come down to performance improvements on Windows. I hope it does 25% better, AMD has a Linux version in a year, and I can play frostbite 3 titles on Linux.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    So you're saying that Mantle is an API into OpenGL?

    You realize Mantle is a low-level console API, right?
    You have two low level APIs. OpenCL and OpenGL.

    You create an API that leverages the most commonly used areas with specific calls to AMD hardware. You have a unified GCN architecture from the console, to the desktop, to the laptop, to the embedded space, to the workstation and server spaces.

    You have a lot of code reuse across all levels.

    You then use:

    • OpenGL 4.x/OpenCL1.2 profiles for the Desktop/Laptop/Workstation/Server
    • OpenGL ES 3.x/OpenCL 1.2 profiles for the Embedded Space/Console Space


    where Mantle reuse doesn't happen.

    AMD is 100% in on OpenGL and OpenCL. It's their future. Mantle is a means of encapsulating most of the heavy lifting for you. It's a means of accessing AMD customizations where possible and keeping your `agnostic' OpenGL/OpenCL code separate.

    The lack of information is a means for AMD to create `buzz' by the sheer amount of speculation on what it is or is not.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
    You have two low level APIs. OpenCL and OpenGL.

    You create an API that leverages the most commonly used areas with specific calls to AMD hardware. You have a unified GCN architecture from the console, to the desktop, to the laptop, to the embedded space, to the workstation and server spaces.

    You have a lot of code reuse across all levels.

    You then use:

    • OpenGL 4.x/OpenCL1.2 profiles for the Desktop/Laptop/Workstation/Server
    • OpenGL ES 3.x/OpenCL 1.2 profiles for the Embedded Space/Console Space


    where Mantle reuse doesn't happen.

    AMD is 100% in on OpenGL and OpenCL. It's their future. Mantle is a means of encapsulating most of the heavy lifting for you. It's a means of accessing AMD customizations where possible and keeping your `agnostic' OpenGL/OpenCL code separate.

    The lack of information is a means for AMD to create `buzz' by the sheer amount of speculation on what it is or is not.

    Mantle is just a damn Buzz Word OpenGL>Mantle the way they got there 5X of DX9 was removing the limits of DX9 as DX9 has a Cap on performance There is no way it's going to be way faster then OpenGL+OpenCL Buzz Buzz Buzz Buzz we can say OpenGL+OpenCL is 5x faster then DX9 as well but from what i can see there is no CPU+GPU's to date that can do this Buzz Buzz Buzz

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
    You have two low level APIs. OpenCL and OpenGL.

    You create an API that leverages the most commonly used areas with specific calls to AMD hardware. You have a unified GCN architecture from the console, to the desktop, to the laptop, to the embedded space, to the workstation and server spaces.

    You have a lot of code reuse across all levels.

    You then use:

    • OpenGL 4.x/OpenCL1.2 profiles for the Desktop/Laptop/Workstation/Server
    • OpenGL ES 3.x/OpenCL 1.2 profiles for the Embedded Space/Console Space


    where Mantle reuse doesn't happen.

    AMD is 100% in on OpenGL and OpenCL. It's their future. Mantle is a means of encapsulating most of the heavy lifting for you. It's a means of accessing AMD customizations where possible and keeping your `agnostic' OpenGL/OpenCL code separate.

    The lack of information is a means for AMD to create `buzz' by the sheer amount of speculation on what it is or is not.
    Source...?

  7. #37
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    A glimpse on Mantle docs suggest quite opposite, it looks like developers can work with some kind of virtual machine. I guess best analogy would be llvm (just it's internals closely match GCN architecture).


    [edit: I mixed up things a lil ]
    Last edited by Xeno; 09-27-2013 at 06:29 PM.

  8. #38
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    oh come on people, you all know this is another 3DNow! thing that nobody but AMD will be interested in.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Frett View Post
    oh come on people, you all know this is another 3DNow! thing that nobody but AMD will be interested in.
    EA is going pretty HAM on this. Frostbite 3 will use it, which means other EA games will also use it. This includes two Bioware titles and three DICE titles... yeah it has plenty of interest already I think.

    Maybe it will never gain traction beyond EA. But just from looking at AMD's Gaming Evolved wins this past year I'd be surprised if there weren't more coming.

    I'm still not getting an AMD card because FGLRX is terrible, I'm just saying.

  10. #40
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    Anybody who develops a game for PS4 or XB1 and is using the low-level API is probably going to be using this Mantle (or a slight variant of it), so they're in. Moving their games over to Windows should be somewhat trivial.

    And whether it ever comes to Linux is still up in the air. All I know is that I don't think Linux anything was ever even mentioned Wednesday. So that's something to chew on.

    Remember that consoles still lead the whole gaming industry. PC gets sloppy seconds.

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