Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 210111213 LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 123

Thread: We Have Mir & Wayland, But There Still Could Be X12

  1. #111
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Linuxland
    Posts
    5,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by valeriodean View Post
    X11 fans?
    ROFL.
    I know there are fan clubs for every stupid thing out there, but why to be a fan of a display server full of flicker, flashes and tearing defects? It's a mistery.
    You do not see the need to replace X11, isn't it?
    LOL, you can see all the reasons just watching your monitor.
    What the others said. I haven't had any tearing or flashing in close to a decade. Hint: it's called vsync. If your driver cannot properly do vsync, that is an issue with your driver.

  2. #112
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    That is your assumption.
    Yes, and I gave reasons for my assumptions why I believe there cannot be really harmful conflicts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryao View Post
    X11 fans such as myself do not care if Wayland could be made to work for our use cases. We do not see the need to replace X11 and we will continue using it for years to come. You are not going to replace the display server on our machines. To put it simply, read xkcd #927:

    http://xkcd.com/927/
    That is irrelevant, but I do agree. I am very happy that you will stick to X11. X11 support will not die until the last user of it is gone, which is not in the foreseeable future. There is no reason for you to be concerned, or anyone who is happy with the current X11 workings, like using it over a network. Things will just keep working.

  3. #113
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    On the other hand, rendering toolkits could use acceleration, too, either with an agnostic, specialized 2D driver (kind of DDX, but generic for any toolkit) or via OpenGL, so this possible hog of the CPU sounds like a temporary problem, if any.
    I can't find any plan for 2D driver on Wayland. OpenGL has too high overhead.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JS987 View Post
    I can't find any plan for 2D driver on Wayland.
    It shouldn't target Wayland, as Wayland doesn't render. It should target toolkits, which are the ones doing this work.

  5. #115
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    It shouldn't target Wayland, as Wayland doesn't render. It should target toolkits, which are the ones doing this work.
    Intel / AMD / NVIDIA haven't announced they are working on or planning 2D driver for e.g. GTK and Qt on Wayland AFAIK. There are applications which use neither GTK nor Qt. 2D driver on X is toolkit independent and is running in different process than application.
    If Wayland applications will hog CPU and GPU, it will also increase power consumption and decrease battery life on mobile devices.
    Last edited by JS987; 10-07-2013 at 02:05 PM.

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JS987 View Post
    Intel / AMD / NVIDIA haven't announced they are working on or planning 2D driver for e.g. GTK and Qt on Wayland AFAIK. There are applications which use neither GTK nor Qt. 2D driver on X is toolkit independent and is running in different process than application.
    If Wayland applications will hog CPU and GPU, it will also increase power consumption and decrease battery life on mobile devices.
    AFAIK, 2D driver on X is not toolkit independent, as it only works for calls for the toolkit embedded on X (xrender, IIRC). Other toolkits can call them, but they can avoid them, too, and just use OpenGL or whatever means they prefer.
    Those applications which use no toolkit shouldn't exist on Wayland, since Wayland doesn't implement the rendering operations. If they exist, they will be manually doing any render, and this means they would be the ones who think how to accelerate it.

    Also, I don't see how they would "hog CPU and GPU". If anything, they will hog only one of them, because either they will be unaccelerated (hogging CPU, but not touching GPU) or accelerated (opposite situation).

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JS987 View Post
    Intel / AMD / NVIDIA haven't announced they are working on or planning 2D driver for e.g. GTK and Qt on Wayland AFAIK. There are applications which use neither GTK nor Qt. 2D driver on X is toolkit independent and is running in different process than application.
    If Wayland applications will hog CPU and GPU, it will also increase power consumption and decrease battery life on mobile devices.
    Would something like OpenVG corresponds to what you are thinking about?
    If it's below the toolkits, and implemented by all drivers, it will end up being some "Khronos group" API style, especially if not "NIH".

  8. #118
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    wow you don't get it at all do you? the only Way to Fix X11 is to fully gut it remove all the old code and write all new code it was faster just to write Wayland and by doing a rewrite to Xorg this way brings in way to many politics Look how pissy the Xorg developers are over DRI3 (it was like them gentoo guys over systemd or was that NIH syndrome) also the X.Org Foundation said wayland is a umbrella of them.
    Hey now! I for one cannot wait for Wayland, after some doubts I find the sooner its stable and a full drop in replacement for X the better. As for SystemD its a piece of rubbish and I stay clear of any Distro using that piece of shit as a default init system.

  9. #119
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by valeriodean View Post
    X11 fans?
    ROFL.
    I know there are fan clubs for every stupid thing out there, but why to be a fan of a display server full of flicker, flashes and tearing defects? It's a mistery.
    You do not see the need to replace X11, isn't it?
    LOL, you can see all the reasons just watching your monitor.
    Consider me an X11 fan as well. No, I don't see the need to replace X11-- yes, that is it, isn't it? I can't seem to see these flickers, flashes, and tearing defects you describe-- my display is perfectly fine.

    I have no interest in replacing X11. It has worked well for me for years, and it has become a standard across all the UNIXsphere.

  10. #120
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    AFAIK, 2D driver on X is not toolkit independent, as it only works for calls for the toolkit embedded on X (xrender, IIRC). Other toolkits can call them, but they can avoid them, too, and just use OpenGL or whatever means they prefer.
    Those applications which use no toolkit shouldn't exist on Wayland, since Wayland doesn't implement the rendering operations. If they exist, they will be manually doing any render, and this means they would be the ones who think how to accelerate it.

    Also, I don't see how they would "hog CPU and GPU". If anything, they will hog only one of them, because either they will be unaccelerated (hogging CPU, but not touching GPU) or accelerated (opposite situation).
    Any toolkit can use xrender on X, but if 2D driver would be e.g. Cairo backend on Wayland, non-Cairo applications / toolkits can't use that driver. I can't force toolkit developers to use Cairo.

    OpenGL applications can hog CPU and GPU at same time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •