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Thread: Steam Machines Prototypes: Intel CPU, NVIDIA GPU

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSB View Post
    Mark my words:
    There will be SBs at 500 USD that beat the crap out of PS4...at least i hope so

    It's perfectly possible with GTX660 and i3 (maybe some i5 in special considering bulk prices) achieve that value.
    Firstly the PS4 is only 399 USD, so a machine for 500 USD should better be faster.

    And hope is the only thing you can have right now. Even the mid size Steam Machine's components add up to 1000 USD on Newegg. Major potential for cost saving exists only in using a slower CPU or GPU.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by chithanh View Post
    Firstly the PS4 is only 399 USD, so a machine for 500 USD should better be faster.

    And hope is the only thing you can have right now. Even the mid size Steam Machine's components add up to 1000 USD on Newegg. Major potential for cost saving exists only in using a slower CPU or GPU.
    1st of all Pallidus was talking about SB cost AT LEAST 700 USD.
    I talked about 500 USD...*none* of us was talking about 399 USD.

    PS4 is 399USD because it's price is subsidized.

    Granted, Valve can't/shouldn't sell SB with subsidized prices...but can sell with marginal/symbolic profits (...and as for 3rd party SB OEMs, i'm sure some will take their chances with AMD APU and can sell SBs with a nice profit)...

    We are also forgetting a possibility:

    Customer pay 500-600 USD upfront...and get *AT ITS OWN CHOICE* from Steam catalog maybe some AAA games for *FREE* (doubt about it) or several (5-10 AAA titles)at 30% discount price (more likely).
    (I didn't pulled 30% from out of nowhere...IIRC, it's Valve's cut in each game sell or a close value to that)

    Anyway, i still think 500 USD is possible w/o using those game promos...Xbone would not be sold at loss and costs that, IIRC.

    At NewEgg...

    1TB SSHD is 100 USD, GTX660 with 3GB DDR5 is 235 USD (with 2GB is 200 USD but they said it will used 3GB in all Video Cards, AFAIK, so i use the one with 3GB at 235 USD for calculations), CPU 120 USD, 480W PSU from 13 USD (i know...but i'm using one for 7 years and nothing burned/damaged so far ), Case from 15 USD (bare w/o PSU), MoBo from 50 USD...

    YES , it passes barrier of 500 USD (but not by much) but these are prices for *single units* and NOT BULK PRICES...

    ...not to mention that Nvidia/Intel are more than willing to enter in this market successfully after been marginalized by AMD from PS4 and Xbone so they might be *very* sympathetic to Valve and cut a nice deal with Valve...

    ...and no, i didn't forgot price of gamepad but i'm counting again with the savings in the bulk prices to cover it and that it will be included at cost with each SB...and that Valve can sell it w/o SB to anyone and have a bit of extra profit in those units sold w/o SBs...


    PS: Oooops....i forgot 16GB DDR3 at 1600mhz...130 USD.
    That will push price a bit up but still not impossible...i have no clue how bulk prices can go low in these kind of deals...in a worst case scenario, it will 600 USD and Valve will do the discount in the games.
    Last edited by AJSB; 10-06-2013 at 06:18 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmstick View Post
    Use of winelib or wine is forbidden by Valve. How could you forget that? Serious Sam 3 is a native port.
    Source please? Yeah, I used google, unsuccesfully.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmstick View Post
    Open source drivers suck with gaming, we all know that. However, if AMD or NVIDIA were to put full development effort into Linux like they do with Windows, this could be solved quickly.
    They don't, they suck only on specific areas. Yeah, the progress could have been overclocked a lot, that was the sense of all my previous posts.

  4. #104
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    @AJSB You talked about "beat the crap out of PS4". Of course a 500 USD machine should beat the crap out of a 399 USD one, else it would be very surprising. Whether the machine is subsidized or not doesn't matter to the buyer (and from the behavior of Microsoft and Sony so far, I think neither Xbone nor PS4 are subsidized in any major way).

    Certainly Valve will have ways to make Steam OS more appear attractive, but I think they will use only methods that don't affect their bottom line much, e.g. additional free DLC for Steam OS users.

    Besides the price of the components, someone needs to assemble and test all this, perform distribution, customer service/warranty, etc. which all cost money. I don't think you can sell a machine for much cheaper than the sum of its component prices on Newegg.

    About NVidia, some people in other forums are speculating that they gave Valve the 300 cards for the Steam Machine prototypes for free. But that's not a good long-term business strategy. I consider it even questionable that Steam Machine vendors will get any significant additional discounts.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by chithanh View Post
    @AJSB You talked about "beat the crap out of PS4". Of course a 500 USD machine should beat the crap out of a 399 USD one, else it would be very surprising. Whether the machine is subsidized or not doesn't matter to the buyer (and from the behavior of Microsoft and Sony so far, I think neither Xbone nor PS4 are subsidized in any major way).

    Certainly Valve will have ways to make Steam OS more appear attractive, but I think they will use only methods that don't affect their bottom line much, e.g. additional free DLC for Steam OS users.

    Besides the price of the components, someone needs to assemble and test all this, perform distribution, customer service/warranty, etc. which all cost money. I don't think you can sell a machine for much cheaper than the sum of its component prices on Newegg.

    About NVidia, some people in other forums are speculating that they gave Valve the 300 cards for the Steam Machine prototypes for free. But that's not a good long-term business strategy. I consider it even questionable that Steam Machine vendors will get any significant additional discounts.
    Well upfront, SB will be a much better deal that "will beat the crap out of PS4"...i was a bit too fast and didn't explained in detail what i meant with that...and English is not my natural language...

    The *1TB* *SSHD* for starters beats in that department what is offered by competition...*500GB* *HDD* in a PS4...REALLY ?!? It's not even the issue of speed....
    ...New KillZone is rumored to be 50GB !!! There goes 1/10th of HDD space in a single game !!!

    16GB DDR3 + 3GB DDR5 also beats the competition....PS4 will use only DDR5...that's good...but still is only 8GB *for everything* including the graphics.
    OTOH, SB will have a total *19GB* of RAM with 3GB of those of DDR5 type dedicated to graphics only....and i really don't think that in practice a PS/Xbone will ever use even 3GB for the graphics.
    (and let's not even talk about the "pathetic" Xbone RAM specs )

    Then we have the gamepad, that i have big hopes for it and is raising some eyebrows in Redmond and in Tokyo

    Then we have a online service that is *free*...PS4/Xbone are , AFAIK, paid for.

    Then we have local Streaming that for several reasons beats, IMHO, online streaming.

    Then we have a machine that is easy to upgrade and evolve...PS4/Xbone ? closed systems.

    Then we have that the SB is truly at core a PC...i'm not sure but i believe that if we want , we can run in it any Linux program....PS4/Xbone ? don't think so
    Last edited by AJSB; 10-06-2013 at 06:52 PM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    Source please? Yeah, I used google, unsuccesfully.
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/41070/

    Serious Sam 3 for windows mac and Linux.

    http://croteam.com/

    Serious Sam 3: BFE - running on Linux!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gps4l View Post
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/41070/

    Serious Sam 3 for windows mac and Linux.

    http://croteam.com/

    Serious Sam 3: BFE - running on Linux!
    I'm damn sure brosis wanted to have a source for the claim that
    the use of WINELIB is strictly forbidden by Valve.

    Edit: BTW http://croteam.com/
    The 90's called and want their website back.
    Last edited by entropy; 10-06-2013 at 06:55 PM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    I'm damn sure brosis wanted to have a source for the claim that
    the use of WINELIB is strictly forbidden by Valve.

    Edit: BTW http://croteam.com/
    The 90's called and want their website back.


    I was surprised too, when I saw that site. Does not look very nice.

  9. #109
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    On the subject of Mantel

    1. Is Mantel windows only ? I thought it was meant to be portable to anything using AMD’s Graphics Core Next architecture? Kind of like write once use on ps4/xbox-one/pc with new AMD GPU is that correct?

    2. How much of a role did DICE play in this API ?

    3.Mantel shows great performance increases but so did Glide/3dfx and that was considered a good thing when it died since not being so great for other card owners. Will the same be said about Mantel?

    4. Is Nvidia's NVAPI the same as Mantel ? If so does that make OpenGL and eventually Direct3D dead in the water? Wouldn't it be easier to write for say NVAPI and Mantel and for a few more years Direct3D simply to cover those with older GPU's? Wouldn't this kill off or reduce further OpenGl and eventually Direct3D use?

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsa1983 View Post
    Hahaha... I think they need adding extra cores to their opensource team, not "overclocking" Alex, Michel, Marek,... Im sure those guys are quite busy
    If needed I can build a -70 fahrenheit chiller so we can overclock them to their absolute limits, though I doubt they would appreciate it as I'm fairly certain that the current stepping of humans is cold bugged...

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