Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 40

Thread: NVIDIA & Valve Work Together On SteamOS

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Taupo, New Zealand
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I don't think AMD's strategy is to do much "convincing". The primary purpose of Mantle is to have a competitive advantage and sell hardware.
    I don't know if that would work very well, seeing as they don't have a majority marketshare, it would have to be a pretty good performance increase at little development cost imo to gain them marketshare. I think the easiest way is to get NVIDIA on board or even Intel at least, but it'll be tricky. If they have licensing on MANTLE then they can do a Microsoft>Android.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,645

    Default

    I think you can compare mantle a bit with cuda or physix, there will be always some games which use it, but it will not be necessary in general, just that those games will get an AMD logo instead of a Nvidia one I really think AMD should optimize OpenGL more than creating mantle, that's useless for most existing games - maybe usefull for future console ports. When it is possible to play Source engine games with radeon oss with less input lag than with fglrx then it seems to be very clear that AMD has no huge interest in the 1% market share segment. OSS drivers are nice, but they are usually not for the core gamers which buy every new card when it is out. SteamOS with AMD hardware could be so much cheaper than Intel+Nvidia but the only game that works better (no rendering artefacts at least) than Nvidia is Killing Floor. AMD is definitely missing an opportunity to shine, but they have to focus on the high volume markets first to make some money...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    What I'm saying is that it won't, at least for the most common cases. Currently, any given player can get any given game for free. You just need to download a torrent. The people who pay for the games, actually pays for it because they A) know piracy is illegal and B) acknowledge the hard work it is to develop games, and that it should be economically rewarded as any other product. Making it easier to pirate will not change this.
    That's not true, unless you mean "any steam game". I can think of at least 20 titles off the top of my head which do not have pirated copies. Most of them are hardcore turn-based strategy games, but I'm sure there are other examples. This is not due to the fact that it is technically impossible to pirate them, but because nobody took the effort to. If you like to play games that do not fall into the mainstream you're pretty much have to go legal.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJSB View Post
    Mantle can be the last nail in traditional consoles coffin....they always had the advantage to talk directly with hardware as opposite to PCs that need video drivers with a relative high level of abstraction...with Mantle, we will get almost same level of direct control (not exactly at same level...i believe there is still a slight level of abstraction but i might be wrong).

    The problem of Mantle is that it's a AMD-only thing....unless AMD ( or...Valve (?!?) ) somehow convinces Intel and Nvidia join in...
    MANTLE-like API would definitely have such kind of problem, unless NVIDIA and AMD make an agreement on their ISA (just like Intel and AMD's x86 CPU).

    Unfortunately I can't see the future of any agreement on GPU's ISA. AFAIK there are many different design choices among their ISAs.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by borsook View Post
    That's not true, unless you mean "any steam game". I can think of at least 20 titles off the top of my head which do not have pirated copies. Most of them are hardcore turn-based strategy games, but I'm sure there are other examples. This is not due to the fact that it is technically impossible to pirate them, but because nobody took the effort to. If you like to play games that do not fall into the mainstream you're pretty much have to go legal.
    And the games which didn't awake the interest of crackers before, won't awake it if it becomes easier.
    Also, I don't think those are the main sale of Steam anyway.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    I think you can compare mantle a bit with cuda or physix, there will be always some games which use it, but it will not be necessary in general, just that those games will get an AMD logo instead of a Nvidia one I really think AMD should optimize OpenGL more than creating mantle, that's useless for most existing games - maybe usefull for future console ports. When it is possible to play Source engine games with radeon oss with less input lag than with fglrx then it seems to be very clear that AMD has no huge interest in the 1% market share segment. OSS drivers are nice, but they are usually not for the core gamers which buy every new card when it is out. SteamOS with AMD hardware could be so much cheaper than Intel+Nvidia but the only game that works better (no rendering artefacts at least) than Nvidia is Killing Floor. AMD is definitely missing an opportunity to shine, but they have to focus on the high volume markets first to make some money...
    You know, you mention something that, maybe, people haven't been looking at the "right way". AMD/ATI has been known to have inferior drivers as compared to Nvidia, and yet the argument against them abadoning fglrx has been, essentially, that it "Works So Well". Certainly it is faster in most cases as compared to radeon but it is also horrendously complex and, apparently, too hard to fix. Perhaps it might make sense for them to, over the "Long Term", migrate to the open driver. It would certainly reduce the complexity of the driver devs job, at least for linux (possibly for os x as well) since they could focus on "just" the hardware enablement code and leverage the rest of the stack.
    In the meantime they'd need to get radeon to utilize the hardware as completely as their driver (which should be the case anyway) and then focus on getting those game specific performance hacks in.
    I suppose, at the end of the day, the question should be is AMD's graphics devision essentially a hardware company or not? If they aren't then it would appear they are in pretty serious trouble, but hardware seems like the proper domain for something as complex as a modern gpu. A modern gpu is too much like a system unto itself for the driver not to be complex but if they intend to move to HSA their going to need to make much better friends with the kernel than they currently are.
    Last edited by liam; 10-08-2013 at 12:41 AM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    I think you can compare mantle a bit with cuda or physix, there will be always some games which use it, but it will not be necessary in general, just that those games will get an AMD logo instead of a Nvidia one I really think AMD should optimize OpenGL more than creating mantle, that's useless for most existing games - maybe usefull for future console ports.
    I think most new games will use it to take advantage of ps4/xbone GPU's it's not like LibGCM was unpopular

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    And the games which didn't awake the interest of crackers before, won't awake it if it becomes easier.
    Also, I don't think those are the main sale of Steam anyway.
    Of course, I just wanted to point out that it is not true that "any" game can be pirated. We don't all watch the same films or play the same games. So the situation is not as simple as it was painted here.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    642

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zxy_thf View Post
    MANTLE-like API would definitely have such kind of problem, unless NVIDIA and AMD make an agreement on their ISA (just like Intel and AMD's x86 CPU).

    Unfortunately I can't see the future of any agreement on GPU's ISA. AFAIK there are many different design choices among their ISAs.
    ...and sadly, i agree with you....the chances of any agreement between these 3 companies are slim....

    OTOH, like you refer, in the past there was such a kind of agreement between AMD and Intel about CPUs....taking in account that now both are the underdogs in the GPU sector compared with Nvidia, they, and in special , Intel, might consider that it would be highly beneficial such agreement in the GPU sector.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Australia
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    NVIDIA better be careful or Microsoft is going to come along and cut off their balls.
    LoL. I don't know about that. M$ cut their own balls off with windows 8.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •