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Thread: Why FreeBSD Is Liking LLDB For Debugging

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    The difference in success and amount of developers and corporate backing is obvious here: the GPL license allows collaboration, with the safeguard that no one entity can take your contribution and run away with it - everything is shared with everyone or not at all, so everyone can safely contribute without fearing a competitor takes the code and uses it to gain an advantage with a closed derivative. On the BSD model, it's exactly opposite - everyone closes down their code to get that "advantage" against others.

    Corporations using BSD mainly just cause harm and trouble to all of us.
    How would this apply to LLVM?

  2. #12
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    Wow, a troll dropped his bait, and literally everyone took it.

    I hope LLDB and LLVM will light a fire in GCC's and GDB's asses. This space needs competition.

  3. #13
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    A debuggers plus linux vs xBSD flamewar? Really? LOL
    Who's the troll who started this? I have to congratulate the troll for his creativity and initiative

  4. #14
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  5. #15

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    The Linux support for LLDB is in a similar situation where the support and compatibility is not nearly as good as under OS X
    Not nearly as good. Is that a euphemism for CRAP ?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayrulez View Post
    RATM's Zach de la Rocha's voice was in my head when I was reading this rofl! And the drawing that's supposed to be the troll doesn't look like one.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhux View Post
    Why should I care about the market share if it serves me well?
    You shouldn't. You're free to use whatever you want. No one cares if you want to use BSD, but that's not what this was about. You started trolling about how BSD is superior and Linux sucks. I told you it isn't, because licensing -> low popularity -> less developers -> poor hardware support.

    Yup, Apple mainly causes harm and trouble. I'm with you on this, still I fail to see your point.
    Well, you can take a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink...

    You miss the point that a BSD'ed software remains free regardless of all proprietary forks.
    No, you miss the point about how that doesn't matter. Why does Apple not release their modifications to BSD openly? Because if they did, someone could just take it, make their own proprietary MacOS, do improvements to the code, and start competing with Apple with an improved MacOS where all the improvements would be closed to Apple. The same thing for Sony - they will never openly release their BSD improvements that they made for Playstation.

    On Linux and GPL, it's different. Many corporations can work together, release their improvements openly, so that they benefit us all, because they know that that situation can not happen - the GPL ensures that everything stays open, no one can take the code and hide it to gain an advantage to others, and this enables corporations - even ones that are in competition with each other - to collaborate and share code openly.

    And that's the main point which makes Linux superior, the GPL licensing. It facilitates collaboration accross many developers from many backgrounds and many corporations, and does it in a way that lets all of us benefit from the code. I say superior in the sense that Linux attracts much more developers, which means better support, newer features etc. If a BSD works better for your personal needs that's fine for you.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    You shouldn't. You're free to use whatever you want. No one cares if you want to use BSD, but that's not what this was about.
    This is a "new technology of BSD" news article thread, so yes, it mainly was.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    licensing -> low popularity -> less developers -> poor hardware support.
    Superior license -> no valid proof of so-called "popularity" -> a pretty lot of developers -> adequate hardware support. (All OSs support different hardware. Linux won't run on an iPod, right? Is that "poor hardware support"? BSD runs on a toaster. Get real.)

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    No, you miss the point about how that doesn't matter. Why does Apple not release their modifications to BSD openly?
    They do (Darwin).

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    On Linux and GPL, it's different. Many corporations can work together, release their improvements openly, so that they benefit us all
    The BSD license doesn't say "please don't share your source code".

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    And that's the main point which makes Linux superior, the GPL licensing.
    That's why the Linux world is split into the thousands and BSD is a sane and living ecosystem.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhux View Post
    You miss the point that a BSD'ed software remains free regardless of all proprietary forks.
    http://noordering.wordpress.com/2009...l-is-not-free/
    For one thing, that dude uses a library as an example, but fails to mention the LGPL. If the developer wanted their library to be used in proprietary programs, they wouldn't have chosen the GPL.

    And the other thing is the usual confusion about what "free software" is. For BSD, it means the code is free, and anyone can use it for whatever purpose they want.

    The GPL means a program is (and stays) free. Nobody can extend the program without publishing the code for their additions. That means you can always examine the code for security problems, what formats are used for saving/exchanging data, fix bugs yourself, continue development/fork if the original developer loses interest/goes into a direction you don't like. A BSD application might get extended with proprietary extensions that make file formats incompatible, and make users dependent on the developer to fix bugs and continue development.

    In other words, BSD means "freedom for developers" while GPL means "freedom for users" - and since there are much more users than developers it obviously follows that GPL > BSD.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    If the developer wanted their library to be used in proprietary programs, they wouldn't have chosen the GPL.
    Precisely.

    I, for one, make my money as a web developer for a small company which requires libraries to be licensed under a license which allows us to keep our sources closed. The GPL basically would deny us to work at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    For BSD, it means the code is free, and anyone can use it for whatever purpose they want.
    Which is the maximum freedom. Why would anyone want to enforce other people to publicly release their code just because they use a certain piece of code for something different?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    That means you can always examine the code for security problems
    Now that may explain the open-for-years bugs in Debian...

    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    In other words, BSD means "freedom for developers" while GPL means "freedom for users" - and since there are much more users than developers it obviously follows that GPL > BSD.
    The sheer number decides about importance? You're quite wrong here.
    Also, how does the BSD license decrease a user's freedom? Which part of FreeBSD is closed source, for example, avoiding anyone to review it?

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