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Thread: Another Game Studio Backs AMD's Mantle API

  1. #11
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    Now it's just a matter of when the Linux support will arrive.
    Hint:
    Starts with n, ends with r and the middle letters are eve.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    It cannot be harder than OpenGL, that's a given. Not only do you have to contend with API madness, you have to fight against drivers all the way through (does any driver actually implement UBOs to spec yet?)

    So yeah, Mantle could be a breath of fresh air. Although considering it's AMD, it will probably be half-assed and half-supported in the end.

    (How about this: release it as an open specification and make sure other people can implement it. Keeping it behind closed doors until 2015 is not going to help anyone.)

    Edit: have they said anything about Linux support?
    Mantle will not change anything, unless anything else than GCN AMD chips are supported. Up to this point all games on Linux will have to use OpenGL, so actually at this point Mantle is increasing the work that has to be done on the game engines, since you have to support two render-paths in that case.
    It will only be a fresh breeze of air if it gets supported by non-GCN AMD cards (nobody will replace a perfectly working HD68XX/69XX with a HD7XXX card just to get Mantle support) and of course by Nvidia and Intel. Otherwise it will just be another of AMD's inventions that sounds nice, but won't get a breakthrough.

  3. #13
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    Star Citizen, the crowdfunded space MMO by Chris Roberts of Wing Commander fame, has stated that they will support mantle too. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...Mantle-Support

    And even if you're not interested in Star Citizen (you should be , this is interesting as they use the Cry Engine, probably meaning that the Cry Engine eventually also will support Mantle. From what has been stated elsewhere around SC, Cloud Imperium Games/Roberts Space Industries work very closely with the Cry developers, and we've been given the impression that AMD probably sponsors the development on Star Citizens end.

    Linux support has been asked for a lot around Star Citizen, but nothing has been promised sofar. The work on a Linux enabled Cry Engine has spurred further hope, but CIG has stated that there are other hurdles in some of the other game sub systems.

  4. #14
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    I'm still not convinced how no security is a good idea at all, especially on Linux where implementing things into the drivers is not an issue. It will result in a lot of crappy games that lock your GPU up because someone forgot to release their resources or other silly things like that. And I really don't like having to trust game developers to have a better idea of how my graphics card works than the company that designed it, because that just won't happen...

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    How about this: release it as an open specification and make sure other people can implement it. Keeping it behind closed doors until 2015 is not going to help anyone.
    I agree. ASAIK spec are still a work in progress, and the first finalised version should be available next year. I assume the specs will be publicly available at this time, but have no confirmation yet.
    What would be nice is to see that API supported through the HSA fundation. (It use some of the concepts of heterogenous computing, like shared memory model for example.)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Edit: have they said anything about Linux support?
    It seems that some company spoke about the fact that they would like to see mantle on both linux and mac. But nothing have been announced yet.

  6. #16
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    It was said one of the benefits of Mantle was all the extra draw calls that could be made. Then i read John Carmack says Nvidia’s OpenGL extensions give similar improvements. So what other benefits if any does Mantle have over OpenGL ?

  7. #17
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    Interesting... alas at this.point I don't see much difference as in its day with 3dfx's Glide API, which they even brought to Linux. Lessons learned since the late 90s in this regard, even though at one time Glide was THE gaming API, include the fact that its demise was due to different factors both technical and non-technical (like the lack for 32-bit color depth), but the main reason even though they open sourced it at the end the fact that it only ran well on 3dfx hardware, plus the availability of "hardware agnostic" (yes that'd be D3D and OGL), even though the latter was considered not for consumer games, but rather professional work, and the former being developed by Microsoft in close. Cooperation with the different IHVs, in the end tilted the balance towards those, and marked the beginning of the reign of D3D as THE API... for Windows. As computing in general has become more platform varied with the likes of Apple, Linux and *BSDs, and the multitude of gaming consoles, OGL gained ground, but not as much. Now Mantle has to prove wrong that which made Glide fail in the first place, and even trying to wield it as the ultimate means to bring more attention to to their platform. However one has to remember that both juggernauts of the next gen consoles are using AMD graphics systems in this scenario Mantle does make the world of a difference writing once and deploying on three (potentially four) different platforms... I guess that only time will tell...

    Alas I doubt that other vendors implementations of Mantle wiil run as well as on AMDs systems, most definitely not in the initial steps of implementation.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    I don't get this.

    *If* we assume Mantle is already in a good shape and only needs some final polish,
    wouldn't that be a great chance for AMD to circumvent the OpenGL misery (see Metro: LL, etc.)?
    And as it is a low-level API, it sounds like it doesn't require much work to bring it to Linux.(?)
    Metro LL is huge fun, what you're talking about? It runs perfectly with my Asus GTX 770.
    If Nvidia, Intel etc support Mantle, otherways it will die. I couldn't care less...like different linux package
    formats etc....a pain in the ass. Fragmentation is the last we need. Only think of the silly Nvidia install
    repos/packages/ppa etc. which 90% are broken. Happy handicraft...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDF420 View Post
    It was said one of the benefits of Mantle was all the extra draw calls that could be made. Then i read John Carmack says Nvidia’s OpenGL extensions give similar improvements. So what other benefits if any does Mantle have over OpenGL ?
    Seems to me either all the supporters of Mantle are really dumb for putting so much money and effort in a project that is useless or Carmack is wrong.

    Carmack is an interesting guy and I love to hear is thoughts but...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Seems to me either all the supporters of Mantle are really dumb for putting so much money and effort in a project that is useless or Carmack is wrong.

    Carmack is an interesting guy and I love to hear is thoughts but...
    Carmack is one of the most overrated* developers in the history of video games. Seriously, he is not THAT great. People keep putting him on a pedestal though...

    *Overrated !=bad. Overrated is good, probably very good, but still getting far more praise and attention that he/she/it deserves...

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