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Thread: Xfi support under Linux updated! even 32 bits!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    This may not be possible depending on your location, (I cant afford to travel) but heres an idea.

    Alright so lets set up a listening test. You can take whatever sound card you want and whatever speakers you want, and I'll take whatever sound card I want and whatever speakers I want... Then we'll agree on a standard choice of audio we'll listen to both systems using the same selection and then decide which one sounds the best.

    Anybody else who can make it can feel free to show up and chime in as well.

    What do ya say?
    clearly you have no idea what I'm talking about. How about you look into programs like steinberg's cubase, cakewalk's sonar, etc first, then let's come back and do a comparison between a lynxtwo and your card of choice.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker010 View Post
    clearly you have no idea what I'm talking about. How about you look into programs like steinberg's cubase, cakewalk's sonar, etc first, then let's come back and do a comparison between a lynxtwo and your card of choice.
    I'm talking about listening to audio. Can I hear a difference or not. I couldnt give two flying f's whether it has some arbitrary amount of latency. Does it pop or skip? Does it sound better or not? Will I notice a difference or not?

    These are the questions. The answer is simple... NO I wont.

    As such a hardware mixer has no benefits for me and probably 99% of the rest of the worlds users. But a software mixer has a freakin ton. Number one, a hardware mixer id fixed function. It cant be updated. A software mixer can....
    Last edited by duby229; 04-18-2008 at 02:17 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    I'm talking about listening to audio. Can I hear a difference or not. I couldnt give two flying f's whether it has some arbitrary amount of latency. Does it pop or skip? Does it sound better or not? Will I notice a difference or not?

    These are the questions. The answer is simple... NO I wont.
    then why are you wasting bits by replying to me? I never said hardware mixer improved quality. You asked why it was needed, and I answered. You're either too arrogant to acknowledge your mistake, or too stupid to understand.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker010 View Post
    then why are you wasting bits by replying to me? I never said hardware mixer improved quality. You asked why it was needed, and I answered. You're either too arrogant to acknowledge your mistake, or too stupid to understand.
    Oh ok so your one of those people who after losing an argument revert to name calling.

    Ok thats cool. Some people need that.

    On the other hand pushing a hardware mixer as better for the sake of less then 1% of the user base is kinda arrogant and stupid too.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Oh ok so your one of those people who after losing an argument revert to name calling.

    Ok thats cool. Some people need that.

    On the other hand pushing a hardware mixer as better for the sake of less then 1% of the user base is kinda arrogant and stupid too.
    Did I lose the argument? I don't remember saying anything that was incorrect; on the other hand you asked, I answered, and upon not liking (or understanding) my answer you decided I said something else and started arguing on a completely unrelated topic. Also, having a hardware mixer and paying less for a soundcard + headset is stupid? I really hope people aren't as smart as you then.

  6. #16
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    Show me where having a hardware mixer would equate to a lower cost...

    And dont put words in my mouth. What I have said and am continuing to say is that if you purchase a sound card with decent op amps and a decent DAC you can get just as good sound as anything with a hardware mixer, and a hell of alot more flexibility and support.

    Where is the inherent benefit to having a hardware mixer? You said latency, and I said it doesn't matter. In a sound test you wont notice a difference.

    Where is the inherent benefit to having a software mixer? And I said that you get more flexibility and support by having an upgradeable system in place, among many other benefits to boot.

    For that less then 1% of folks that can benefit from a hardware mixer there are solutions for them, but for the 99% of everyone else it just isn't needed.

    Like I said in the beginning as long as your card has decent op amps and a decent DAC, you will get just as good sound, and with a software mixer you can get alot more cooler effects and features right now, and the benefit of future effects and features later. That isn't possible using a legacy fixed function hardware mixer.
    Last edited by duby229; 04-18-2008 at 05:19 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Where is the inherent benefit to having a hardware mixer? You said latency, and I said it doesn't matter. In a sound test you wont notice a difference.
    My ears detect a huge difference playing Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge in Wine on Linux between hardware and software mixing.

    With the SB Live (hardware mixing), sound effects play in sync with the visuals.

    With my motherboard's onboard sound (software mixing), I notice a lot of latency. That means the sound effects play too late. I see an explosion but I don't hear it until about a half second later. It's very irritating.

    Latency is even more a problem for audio professionals than for gamers:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_(audio)

    In general, latency refers to delays that have nothing to do with quality or speed. For example, suppose shipping companies had star trek style transporter beam technology. No waiting and no damaged merchandise. But it would still take just as long to pack and otherwise prepare a product for shipment - some initial latency would be unavoidable.

    To continue the analogy, you seem to think he is talking about how accurately rematerialized it would be - or you seem to think that is the only thing that should matter to anyone, when he is in fact talking about the initial delay before shipping.
    Last edited by StringCheesian; 04-19-2008 at 04:43 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by StringCheesian View Post
    My ears detect a huge difference playing Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge in Wine on Linux between hardware and software mixing.

    With the SB Live (hardware mixing), sound effects play in sync with the visuals.

    With my motherboard's onboard sound (software mixing), I notice a lot of latency. That means the sound effects play too late. I see an explosion but I don't hear it until about a half second later. It's very irritating.

    Latency is even more a problem for audio professionals than for gamers:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_(audio)

    In general, latency refers to delays that have nothing to do with quality or speed. For example, suppose shipping companies had star trek style transporter beam technology. No waiting and no damaged merchandise. But it would still take just as long to pack and otherwise prepare a product for shipment - some initial latency would be unavoidable.

    To continue the analogy, you seem to think he is talking about how accurately rematerialized it would be - or you seem to think that is the only thing that should matter to anyone, when he is in fact talking about the initial delay before shipping.
    Your also talking about emulating a software with wine, which is soooo far from perfect that you cant say that it isnt wines fault.

    Take any --modern-- program, and any --modern-- processor, on it's --native-- OS and tell me that you notice the same thing.

    Your talking a special case that few others would experience...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Your also talking about emulating a software with wine, which is soooo far from perfect that you cant say that it isnt wines fault.

    Take any --modern-- program, and any --modern-- processor, on it's --native-- OS and tell me that you notice the same thing.

    Your talking a special case that few others would experience...
    It's also worth noting that Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge in Wine on Linux plays fine WITHOUT lag on other systems that are not using a hardware mixer. All my systems that I have, do not experience the same latency that StringCheesian is experiencing on that exact game.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Show me where having a hardware mixer would equate to a lower cost...
    I did in my first post. but seeing that you are unable to comprehend simple english, this here card does not have a hardware mixer and costs 180. This here card does have a hardware mixer, comes with a headset, and costs 80 after promotions. Given your problem with understanding english, it might also extend to math, so I will also tell you that 179 is a bigger number than 80; and things that have costs that are the bigger number are more expensive. So conversely then, things that have costs that are the smaller (or not the larger) number would be cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    And dont put words in my mouth. What I have said and am continuing to say is that if you purchase a sound card with decent op amps and a decent DAC you can get just as good sound as anything with a hardware mixer, and a hell of alot more flexibility and support.
    you continue to equate hardware mixer = better quality. stop it. you're making a fool of yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Where is the inherent benefit to having a hardware mixer? You said latency, and I said it doesn't matter. In a sound test you wont notice a difference.
    record a mix of line-in stream at 24/96kHz, while looping back pcm output into asio for another 4 channels at 24/96kHz.

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Where is the inherent benefit to having a software mixer? And I said that you get more flexibility and support by having an upgradeable system in place, among many other benefits to boot.

    For that less then 1% of folks that can benefit from a hardware mixer there are solutions for them, but for the 99% of everyone else it just isn't needed.
    That doesn't change the fact that anything with a hardware mixer will also have access to the same software mixer. so you get everything that a card without hardware mixing does, plus more

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Like I said in the beginning as long as your card has decent op amps and a decent DAC, you will get just as good sound, and with a software mixer you can get alot more cooler effects and features right now, and the benefit of future effects and features later. That isn't possible using a legacy fixed function hardware mixer.
    mixing and sound output have little in common.
    Last edited by seeker010; 04-19-2008 at 05:17 PM.

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