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Thread: Open-Source Blu-Ray Update Works On BD-Java Support

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    From what I gather, in bluray, the DRM is embedded in the bluray disc players themselves - in the actual hardware.

    This is Defective by Design on a whole new level.

    So what we need is devices that can read blu-ray discs and bypass that whole DRM thingy. Or a way to modify existing bluray devices into such. So that we can just read the raw data on a blu-ray and rip it. Until that happens, bluray is pointless.
    Well, the disc readers must support certain DRM schemes (like the ability to read blacklists from the discs) to get certified and receive a key that can decode the content on the disc. That key is the key to the whole scheme. Everything else is just a bonus, but without having the player key, you can't decode the encrypted data on the disc. And as I mentioned before, that's just one key of several that you need to assemble before you can start decoding. So you can't have a Blu-ray reader that would not implement the DRM. As for hacking an existing one, it sounds more possible, but the certification probably involves making sure the firmware is tamper-proof in some fashion, too.

  2. #22
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    "The reason why you can't just watch Blu-ray movies on Linux is due to the usual case of OSS and DRM not living well together."

    This is the fundemental argument with Blu-ray DRM, but the previously is inaccurately stated, and think the person meant, "DRM hates OSS, and refuses to work with OSS." It is extremely likely the DRM community can work fine with the OSS community, as I'll detail below.

    Some points are:

    1) Where there's a will, there's a way. Especially with bits and bytes.
    2) OSS or any peaceful society will tend to refuse (or absolutely refuse) to work with anybody being overly zealous.

    The solution is:
    1) verybody needs to work together to ensure copyrighted material is not exploited. The Open Source community, I think, does a fairly good job of this of keeping and maintaining code within the scope of the laws of society, by refusing copyrighted material even when handed it at times!
    2) Enforcing the exploitation of copyrighted material is no different from managing theft within society. And when everybody is working together, and police are working with the public, a solution is almost guarenteed. The big problem with a guarenteed solution, it's a cheap and too easy!

    Currently, makemkv is a closed solution, but it works and I don't currently have to pay for it on Linux, and I speculate in part because the Blu-ray players have Linux, for which I spend time with on a daily or hourly basis helping the community. But no matter how tough you lock something down on a computer, you're still going to need peope police to monitor the trail of bread crumbs.

    Personally, I think there could be an open source makemkv program and the material would be just as secure, too also include those exploiting copyrights would actually be caught.

    It's all about will power when finding the correct solution.

    Also, unless you make mistakes while you're young, you're likely bound to make them later in life, costing you extremely more money later in your future to resolve. As such, we need police to run around playing catch & release with the youngsters. It's their job, and not the Movie industry to enforce. In the past ten years, the industry seems to have become wanna be cops, instead of letting the real police do their jobs. And as such, they're likely loosing money, especially in the long run. Let the police do their job, and the movie industry do there's. File a complaint when somebody's violating the copyright measures, and trust in God as not everybody you file a complaint on is a criminal and considered defamation or slanderous by law. Work against the fundementals, and you get no further as God (or your religion) will not let you. (Sorry, written in first person. ;-)

  3. #23
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    I should also note, I dislike HDMI as HDMI is horribly implemented within Windows Additionally, very likely some of the HDMI DRM specifications degrade the overall features that could be provided by HDMI! On Windows, I've had to disable the HDMI display drivers as well as the NVIDIA HDMI audio drivers, in an attempt to condone a sane software environment within the Windows O/S. (ie. Turn off a display or HDMI stereo, and all displays go black.) On Linux likely due to the excellent open source programmers, the HDMI drivers perform sanely with only lacking possibly features due to HDMI hardware implemented to condone DRM. So I watch Movies using my HDMI TV from within Linux, while only using Windows for recreational activities not related to Movies or video.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgreg View Post
    Ok, so if you totally ignore the legal topic, it is technically possible like it is with dvd?
    For dvd you have decss-lib. So there is something similiar for blurays?

    If I buy a external ir internal bluray-device, can I watch a bluray movie just by inserting a bluray and watch? With vlc?
    Or do I need to crack it before I watch it?
    Do I need windows to crack it? Can I do it just with linux?
    MakeMKV works very nice with encrypted BDs with newest AACS and BD+: http://www.makemkv.com
    But not OSS.
    From the changelog: "MMBD now emulates both old and latest libaacs/libbdplus API". So it should be possible to use it with some effort in VLC, i think.
    You can stream titles via a HTTP server to VLC or XBMC, no native menu support so far. The price is with 60 very fair (demo is 30 days) for the constant updates, a player software for Windows is in the same region and can't rip.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerx View Post
    "The reason why you can't just watch Blu-ray movies on Linux is due to the usual case of OSS and DRM not living well together."

    This is the fundemental argument with Blu-ray DRM, but the previously is inaccurately stated, and think the person meant, "DRM hates OSS, and refuses to work with OSS." It is extremely likely the DRM community can work fine with the OSS community, as I'll detail below.

    Some points are:

    1) Where there's a will, there's a way. Especially with bits and bytes.
    2) OSS or any peaceful society will tend to refuse (or absolutely refuse) to work with anybody being overly zealous.

    The solution is:
    1) verybody needs to work together to ensure copyrighted material is not exploited. The Open Source community, I think, does a fairly good job of this of keeping and maintaining code within the scope of the laws of society, by refusing copyrighted material even when handed it at times!
    Hell no.

    It is not up to the users or any society to "ensure" that "copyrighted material" doesn't get "exploited". The bluray people, hollywood and pals, made their choice - they're the ones who keep coming up with user-hostile DRM schemes, draconian censorship laws, SOPA, ACTA... they started this fight.

    When they stop offering purposefully crippled products, when they stop trying to cripple the internet in an attempt to maintain a monopolistic gatekeeping position on all media and entertainment, when they stop treating the user as an adversary, then we might be able to talk about ways to prevent "exploitation". Until that, they can go fuck themselves.

    2) Enforcing the exploitation of copyrighted material is no different from managing theft within society. And when everybody is working together, and police are working with the public, a solution is almost guarenteed. The big problem with a guarenteed solution, it's a cheap and too easy!
    What planet do you live on?

    Even assuming that we should start "policing" each other for "copyright violations" - which I don't agree with, but let's just assume for a while that we should - how would you go about doing this? If a person on the other side of the world uses an open source utility to "exploit copyrighted material", how are you going to know about it, short of spying on everyone? Do you suggest that we should all start snitching each other to the copyright mafia? That's never going to work.

    But again, and I can't stress this enough: it's not the users' job to police copyright violations. If copyright violations are a problem to the distributor, then it's up to the distributor to come up with a better business model, perhaps one that isn't based on ridiculous DRM schemes and treating the customer as an enemy that can't be trusted.

    Currently, makemkv is a closed solution, but it works and I don't currently have to pay for it on Linux, and I speculate in part because the Blu-ray players have Linux, for which I spend time with on a daily or hourly basis helping the community. But no matter how tough you lock something down on a computer, you're still going to need peope police to monitor the trail of bread crumbs.

    Personally, I think there could be an open source makemkv program and the material would be just as secure, too also include those exploiting copyrights would actually be caught.

    It's all about will power when finding the correct solution.

    Also, unless you make mistakes while you're young, you're likely bound to make them later in life, costing you extremely more money later in your future to resolve. As such, we need police to run around playing catch & release with the youngsters. It's their job, and not the Movie industry to enforce. In the past ten years, the industry seems to have become wanna be cops, instead of letting the real police do their jobs. And as such, they're likely loosing money, especially in the long run. Let the police do their job, and the movie industry do there's. File a complaint when somebody's violating the copyright measures, and trust in God as not everybody you file a complaint on is a criminal and considered defamation or slanderous by law. Work against the fundementals, and you get no further as God (or your religion) will not let you. (Sorry, written in first person. ;-)
    I don't have a religion, I use my own brain to think about things.

    So here's a novel idea: how about instead of policing "copyright violations", we let police catch real criminals? How about we remove punishments for small copyright violations, and allow people to download content for personal use, and strongly encourage content producers to move to business models that are not dependent on destroying our freedoms.

    Right now, the situation is absurd. If I lend a book from a library, that's fine and I don't have to pay anything for it, and no one is chasing me for "copyright violations". But if I download that same book from the internet, suddenly I'm a criminal.

    So what we really need is copyright reform, force the old gatekeepers to adapt or die. Not people spying and snitching on each other.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post


    Right now, the situation is absurd. If I lend a book from a library, that's fine and I don't have to pay anything for it, and no one is chasing me for "copyright violations". But if I download that same book from the internet, suddenly I'm a criminal.

    .
    You also have a lot of countries that have some kind of PLR (Public Lending Right ) scheme where creators and publishers are entitled to payment per copy of each book held in the public libraries . So how do the creators get compensated or paid if everyone simply downloaded it for free.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDF420 View Post
    You also have a lot of countries that have some kind of PLR (Public Lending Right ) scheme where creators and publishers are entitled to payment per copy of each book held in the public libraries . So how do the creators get compensated or paid if everyone simply downloaded it for free.
    Why would the free download change this? They can still keep the copy in the public library. Or make a "digital public library" where the amount of copies is calculated by downloads from this library.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDF420 View Post
    You also have a lot of countries that have some kind of PLR (Public Lending Right ) scheme where creators and publishers are entitled to payment per copy of each book held in the public libraries . So how do the creators get compensated or paid if everyone simply downloaded it for free.
    That's up to the creators to figure out! Some already have and are doing great.

    There's plenty of business models that work perfectly fine even when people can download content for free.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by droste View Post
    You also have a lot of countries that have some kind of PLR (Public Lending Right ) scheme where creators and publishers are entitled to payment per copy of each book held in the public libraries . So how do the creators get compensated or paid if everyone simply downloaded it for free.
    I'd like to point out that in a couple EU countries (France comes to mind), on every blank media sold there is a tax the revenue of which goes to media cartels.

    I guess I won't be buying any new blurays anytime soon...

    Serafean

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serafean View Post
    I'd like to point out that in a couple EU countries (France comes to mind), on every blank media sold there is a tax the revenue of which goes to media cartels.

    I guess I won't be buying any new blurays anytime soon...

    Serafean
    There is a levy on blank media in Canada as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private...ng_levy#Canada

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